Rachel Dennis

Restart Indicator and Residual Costs - TNP 3 and 4


Hello - we have an Apprentice (on a Standard) who was 'on programme' and Withdrew on day 43, so has attracted funding. He later returned to the same Apprenticeship but with a new employer. Following the guidance I have created a new Programme for him in the ILR, entered the Restart Indicator and created a TNP 1 and 2 record (against the new enrolments). The TNP 1 and 2 records reflect the new price and are reduced to reflect the payments previously received (the duration is also reduced).

Is this correct or should the new TNP 1 and 2 records actually be Residual Prices  - TNP 3 and 4? The Apps Indicative Earnings Report seems to be reducing the new (reduced) price by the amount previously received (in the 'Price amount remaining (with upper limit applied) at start of this episode' column).

Thank You


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Main question would be "how much later?" I'm assuming too much later to be covered by the 12 week BIL rule?

I think you're right to use 1&2 assuming it's over 12 weeks, but, regardless of what you assess them to be, an app can't generate over the max on the same Standard, either with the same provider or two different ones, so you will see a reduction.

Rachel Dennis

He is the subject of endless debate ....! We used his last date of engagement with study - 12/12/2022 which was a Functional Skill lesson (that took him over 42 days, just). He then quit his job. I did not put him on a a BiL as he has not agreed to it  - I thought he would have to be a Withdrawal (he also disappeared off the radar so we could not discuss anything with him). We followed this section of the App Funding Rules:

Actions to take where the apprentice withdraws from the apprenticeship, where the apprentice is no longer employed by the  employer and has withdrawn from their programme (not redundancy) OR the apprentice chooses to withdraw prior to  completion but remains with the same employer
P311 The employer must:
P311.1 Notify the main provider that the apprentice has left; and
P311.2 Stop payments through their apprenticeship service account, using a date that corresponds with the date the apprentice withdrew from their apprenticeship. This includes where the apprenticeship is funded by a transfer.
P312 The main provider must record the learning end date of the apprenticeship on the ILR.

He then re-appeared wanting to come back onto the Apprenticeship starting in 07/02/2023, having started with a new employer on 16/01/2023. A new DAS record was created as well as a new Programme in the ILR. 

Should we have put him on a BiL, do you think?


Hahaha, I think every provider has a couple of these!

Per 318/319 I think you can make a case for a BIL?

Where there is a break in employment of more than 30 days 
P318 The original employer must stop payments through their 
apprenticeship service account, using a stop date that corresponds 
with the date the apprentice changed employer. This includes where 
the apprenticeship is funded by a transfer. They can also stop coinvestment, as appropriate. 
P319 The main provider must: 
P319.1 Record the apprentice as on a break a learning on the ILR 
after 30 days; 
P319.2 Ensure that a change of employer is declared on the 
apprenticeship service against the existing record to 
ensure that the same course is carried over to the new 
record one the apprentice restarts with their new 
P319.3 Withdraw the apprentice from the programme if they have 
not re-started with a new employer after 12 weeks. 

Rachel Dennis

Thanks Steve, that would make my boss very happy! What about the DAS though - he has the stopped record and then a separate new record with the new employer? Would I do a change of employer on the stopped record and then ask the current employer to approve it and also stop the newer record? I'm just getting a bit nervous as R14 approaches and I'm not entirely sure what I can change after hard close (even though he continues into 2023/24)....!





Ah, I'm not 100% au fait with that part of the system, hopefully someone else will jump in here who knows! Think it possibly depends on the Stop date on the original record?

Ben James

If it's the same apprenticeship and you use TNP1 and TNP2 again, you should use the original costs, not new/revised ones. The ESFA will assume the TNP1 and TNP2 you use were the costs from the beginning and will deduct any payments already made from any future payments (which it sounds like you're seeing already in the AIR). 

However, in this case, I would actually suggesting using TNP3/TNP4 with your residual costs for a couple of reasons. The apprenticeship hasn't changed, but the employer has, which generally means you should use TNP3/TNP4. The DAS has also been stopped, which complicates using TNP1/TNP2 again. There was a webinar recently where this kind of thing was discussed, link here. In their follow-up Q&A document afterwards they answered a question where someone asked how to code a return following withdrawal:

If the learner is returning with the original employer, use TNP1 and 2. Our system will take care of what has already been earned. Please return both sets of learning aims, including the aims prior to the withdrawal. If the learner is returning with a new employer, use TNP3 and 4 with the remaining costs.

As for DAS, providing the total price matches the entry with the new employer, you should be alright?

Rachel Dennis

Thanks Ben - that's great - I'll change TNP 1 and 2 to 3 and 4. Hopefully the next Return will reflect this change! Thanks Steve as well for your advice!