Simon Liversedge

Framework on DAS (Return from BIL new employer)

Created

We have a learner who went on a break and is now returning. They have moved to a levy payer and are on a framework. 
When we try and put the learner on DAS it is not possible as all FW's have been switched off. 

Does anyone have a work around for this?

 

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Martin West

Hi,

I do not know if you can do this for non-levy to levy

“If an apprentice you’re training needs to move to a new employer, you should:

contact their original employer and ask them to stop the apprentice record

speak to the new employer to agree new training dates, price and request permission to move the apprentice to their apprenticeship service account

Once you’ve agreed these details, you can change the employer.

Non-levy employers will not need apprenticeship funding reserved when taking on an apprentice from another employer.”

HTH

(Edited)

Simon Liversedge

Hi Martin


Yes this is non levy moving to levy so they are going on the App service for the first time however frameworks have all been removed so we are unable to select it now.

The only thing I can think to do is put it on a standard and the same in the ILR as long as the costs and dates match up. Not sure if this will mess anything up further down the line. 

Martin West

Hi Simon,

I do not think the Apprenticeship Service considered the scenario where an Apprentice returned from a BIL and also changed employer, this scenario is also not documented in the Provider Support Manual so it is unknown how this should be recorded on the ILR.

I would advise that as they have not returned from a BIL with the (same) employer then it should be recorded in the ILR as a withdrawal and not a BIL (change 6 to 3).

As you are unable to record this as a restart on a Framework then the only option is to select a Standard which will be classed as a new start and attract funding up to the CAP but you will have to agree with the new Levy employer the detail for them to revise in DAS.

HTH

Simon Liversedge

Thanks Martin

Jessicar

Does anyone know if any of this is quoted anywhere. Sure i remember seeing an apprentice could continue with their Framework if they had been made redundant? We came unstuck at the DAS bit and the App Service advised they had to go on a standard.


It doesn't seem right for normal changes of employer within 30 days either. They are in effect saying an apprentice could have 1 month left on their framework at the point they change employer, meaning everything has to be mapped to a standard and then prepared for EPA. Doesn't seem fair on the learner. Anyone already challenged this with the ESFA?

Paul Blackshaw

I've been chasing the ESFA and Apprenticeship Service help desk since October for a straight answer on this. I received conflicting instruction from the ESFA, one source saying the learners should transfer to a Standard and another saying please continue the delivery of the framework because the the AS system is due to be fixed. The Apprenticeship Service have verbally acknowledged that the AS system needs to allow the entry of frameworks if originally started before August 2020 and an internal communication in October apparently confirmed this would be addressed. I'm now waiting for a reply from the Apprenticeship Service to hopefully confirm that continuing frameworks can be funded and a mechanism to facilitate this will soon be in place.

Brenda Tseng

Does anyone know if the Apprenticeship Service has been fixed to accept restart on apprenticeship framework?  Or any proposed date to get this resolved? I am getting more enquiry on this issue as employers can't input the information right on AS and we can't get the ILR data matching and receive the funding.

Simon Liversedge

Hi Alicia


No they have no fix and no planned dates. The only information I have been given is that you should email the App service. I now just get weekly emails saying they will respond in 5 days which they do not. 

I have raised this all over the ESFA and App service and don't get anywhere but the more people that raise it the more they may take note. 

Paul Blackshaw

Not sure if this will address your issue but I am aware that a new feature was rolled out last week that allows employers to amend previously stopped frameworks specifically to enable the continuation of the same programme with the same employer. I believe this new feature is only available from the employer side of the system. The action required is an amendment to the existing framework record rather than the creation of a new cohort/record. This appears to have worked successfully where a framework learner transferred to a new provider after Aug'20 without a BIK, so it's probably worth trying for a framework restart. 

Simon Liversedge

Thanks Paul, ours have all moved employer during the break so this does not help in this case.