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I do not agree with the answer given by the ESFA as the documentation (PSM) only covers resits of aims and not EPA resits.
See the following:
Recording retakes and resits
If a learner undertakes a learning aim, finishes learning, takes the final assessment and fails, then this aim should be closed and recorded as ‘not achieved’ (Outcome code 3).
Where this learner is then identified as needing further support or additional learning in order to pass the assessment, then a new learning aim should be recorded as a restart with a Funding adjustment for prior learning to account for the new learning required to pass the resit. You must not amend the original, closed learning aim.
Where no further learning is required and the learner is only resitting the assessment or exam, then this is not funded by the ESFA and a new aim must not be recorded.
This applies to aims so if you have closed the Programme aim how do you record an EPA resit outcome?
Thanks for this, however, this raises another question for me that none of the guidance they refer to answers the question.
If a student fails part of the first full attempt at EPA, I get we enter the achievement date and 'no achievement', but can we then update the status to 'achieved' once they have re-sat and passed (no restudy just re-take of assessment)?
If we can, then do we update the achievement date too otherwise the data will suggest it was achieved on an incorrect date?
Do you have an opinion on this?
We have an apprentice that has taken all parts of EPA and did not achieve 2 of them, he is not going to be re-sitting these so I have coded him as 2 for completion status and 3 as outcome, where do I put the end date which is 10/0/2021, his learning end date was in last year July 2020.
OK, here's the conversation (because just posting the response on its own wouldn't help:
The EPAO will record the information as a 'fail' in the apprenticeship service until the apprentice re-sits the element of the EPA that they have failed and 'pass' it. As per the documentation, if there is no additional learning it is not recorded in the ILR.
How does this response even come close to answering my question? Why is this whole process SO frustrating?
I’ve been trying to get this sorted for over six months now and you REFUSE to give me a clear answer.
I don’t care what it says on AS, my question was purely about the field that is called AchDate in the ILR.
Do we stick with the original date of (failed) completion for the EPA or do we change it when a learner resits (and achieves)? That’s literally it.
The advice offered by the Specialist Team, who were investigating this query for you, is that if the learner failed their EPA and if there is no additional learning required, you should not record this failed EPA in the ILR.
Based on this update, what happens if it crosses a year end, would you still record the fail to secure the funding, the apprentice might intend to re-sit but then change their mind and if this crosses a year end you potentially lose the completion and balancing payments as there would be no later achievement date?
I wanted to add to this thread as I too have been in touch with the ESFA helpdesk, and received the below:
If a learner fails EPA and achieves on resit only, then the outcome only can be amended to show that they have now achieved. No other fields are to be amended and a new aim is not required.
If further learning has been identified for the learner before their retake, then a new aim is required as a restart with a funding adjustment . The new aim is recorded this way so that any further funding due can be paid before the retake.
Please see the link below regarding outcomes:-
https://guidance.submit-learner-data.service.gov.uk/previous/20-21/psm/article/recording-learning-outcomes (Recording retakes and resits)
So......... this is saying that only the outcome is changed and no date changes for resits, and for retakes we DO have to add a new learning aim, (which goes against what Martin had said?).
I have responded to the helpdesk and asked if they can look at this thread and get a definitive answer for all providers.
I do not see the issue as where no further learning is required, and the learner is only resitting the EPA all you need to do is update the outcome to show that they have achieved. If you have not already updated the completion status and Achievement date (completion date) then you will need to complete that step.
That is what we would do. Where a learner has completed but failed EPA we would code as 2:3 and add the completion date as the last date of EPA. If the learner then goes on to resit and then achieves we would update to show as a 2:1. (The ESFA confirmed that the completion date would not be altered from the one originally entered).
Where a learner needs to Retake - goes back into learning, we would code the failed EPA as a 2:3 and add a completion date of the final date of EPA, we would then add new aims with a restart indicator, set the new period of learning. Any funding that is remaining, and then follow the process to go back into gateway.
Hi Martin/anyone who can provide clarity, following on from Karen's response above, I just need to ask:
Q If a learner was recorded on the R14 as completed 2:3, but the outcome is then updated on the R03 to 2:1, would the record appear on the 2020/21 QAR or the 2021/22 Hybrid end of year report (due to the latest update falling into the reporting year - as per below?) I think it still remains on the 2020/21 QAR as there hasn't been a change to the dates only the outcome, but I'd be grateful for clarity to make sure this is right.
The overall QAR, pass rate and retention rate calculations use the hybrid end year of the learning aim. The hybrid end year is the latter of the:
a achievement year (for apprenticeship standards on funding model 36 only)
b planned end year of the learning aim
c actual end year of the learning aim
d reporting year.
I know this thread was last updated a year ago but the information within it seems to indicate several different conclusions so please can I check whether we have a definitive picture about what to do for learners who resit without undertaking any further learning? Should we be coding as 2 and 3 (so that the completion payment is generated) until the resit is undertaken and then updating if successful? And, if so, do we amend the achievement date or leave it as per the original EPA completion? Or, if the learner has indicated they will resit then do we code as 2 and 8 until the resit is completed? Does a potential resit mean that the EPA is not complete bearing in mind that learners may not always decide straight away?
Blimey, this was a blast from the past...
The stage of Zen I've reached now is that I don't record the completion until the learner has stopped doing their EPA, so anyone who fails and is definitely resitting, I leave as 1 & 8 until they've done their resit and then report the completion/outcome with AchDate as when they finally finished. I *think* 2&8 isn't valid at all for Standards (ie it will error in the ILR) these days?
I've not yet had anyone I've marked as a fail subsequently come back months later and say they've changed their mind and want to resit...
I do the same as Steve, as soon as someone has fully attempted EPA, I claim the completion with either a pass or a fail, outcome 1 or 3, I don't do anything before that as its only 6-8 weeks between last day in learning and EPA results. If they subsequently re-sit, which most of ours do 3 months later, I then wait for those results and if they pass, I update the outcome to a 1, if they fail again, I leave the codes as they are.
Hope this helps
I know this is blast from the past isn't it. Thank you both so much for coming back to me on this.
It is a minefield, especially when we have all asked for advice, and even this week I am still getting conflicting information from the helpdesk as to how we process this on the ILR.
Steve I know you have said if a learner fails and indicates they are going to re-sit you wait until they complete the re-sit until recording the result, whereas Louise you record the fail and then adjust the outcome code if they subsequently pass after the re-sit.
I don't know if anyone else can advice how they do it, or if the ESFA are able to give further clarity on what we should be doing in this situation?
Hi Lisa Margach,
It depends when you want to be paid for your completion, as soon as the apprentice has fully completed EPA you are entitled to the funding for the completion payment, so we add the fail outcome and claim the funding, then update the results to update QAR stats once achieved.
You need to be careful if you wait for resits, depending on how long you have to wait for the resit and then results, if this is approaching the end of the funding year, waiting might mean you lose your completion payment as the achievement date is supposed to be confirming completion of the End Point Assessment, for us, we know the deadlines for our apprentices to complete but we use the results date as the achievement date as this is our confirmation that they completed all elements of EPA.
It really is how you want to work it, I originally waited for resits but I found this more messy for us, so we have a strict process of claiming all funding when first full EPA attempt is confirmed. I doubt you will get anything specific from the ESFA.
Hope this helps
Apprenticeship Completion Status and resits
Following much discussion about what to do with resits, I have received the following from the Service Desk that I wanted to share here:
You contacted apprenticeship service support on 29 September 2020.
Ticket reference number: 84210.
If the learner decides to resit the EPA, that learning aim should be closed with the initial outcome.
The Provider Support Manual provides a useful guidance on recording standard completions. The information can be found under
Section 6 Completing the ILR: recording apprenticeship programmes, then "Additional guidance for apprenticeships recorded on Funding model 36", accessible on: https://guidance.submitlearnerdatabeta.fasst.org.uk/psm/article/additional-guidance-for-apprenticeship-frameworks-and-standards-recorded-on-funding-model-36.
Towards the bottom the three last chapters:
advise of certain points of the apprenticeship.
When the training is done, you will need to add the learning actual end date, and have an outcome of 8, irrelevant of if the learner then passes or fails EPA, the provider needs to amend the outcome and place in the achievement date. This will give the completion payment, as it's based on the achievement date being in, not the outcome.
The Provider Support Manual also advises on what to do if there is a resit, as well as if more learning is required before the learner takes the resit.
In addition, please refer also to the Section 5 Completing the ILR: recording learner changes, "Recording learning outcomes", accessible on: https://guidance.submitlearnerdatabeta.fasst.org.uk/psm/article/recording-learning-outcomes.
The Recording learning outcomes that talks about resits.
I hope this information was helpful for you.
So, it's definitely INITIAL COMPLETION of the EPA, not ACHIEVEMENT that we record.