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Created 20 November 2020 11:49
Following much discussion about what to do with resits, I have received the following from the Service Desk that I wanted to share here:
Dear Steve,You contacted apprenticeship service support on 29 September 2020.Ticket reference number: 84210.If the learner decides to resit the EPA, that learning aim should be closed with the initial outcome.The Provider Support Manual provides a useful guidance on recording standard completions. The information can be found under Section 6 Completing the ILR: recording apprenticeship programmes, then "Additional guidance for apprenticeships recorded on Funding model 36", accessible on: https://guidance.submitlearnerdatabeta.fasst.org.uk/psm/article/additional-guidance-for-apprenticeship-frameworks-and-standards-recorded-on-funding-model-36.Towards the bottom the three last chapters:
advise of certain points of the apprenticeship.When the training is done, you will need to add the learning actual end date, and have an outcome of 8, irrelevant of if the learner then passes or fails EPA, the provider needs to amend the outcome and place in the achievement date. This will give the completion payment, as it's based on the achievement date being in, not the outcome.The Provider Support Manual also advises on what to do if there is a resit, as well as if more learning is required before the learner takes the resit.In addition, please refer also to the Section 5 Completing the ILR: recording learner changes, "Recording learning outcomes", accessible on: https://guidance.submitlearnerdatabeta.fasst.org.uk/psm/article/recording-learning-outcomes.The Recording learning outcomes that talks about resits.I hope this information was helpful for you.
So, it's definitely INITIAL COMPLETION of the EPA, not ACHIEVEMENT that we record.
No one has replied to this post.
I do not agree with the answer given by the ESFA as the documentation (PSM) only covers resits of aims and not EPA resits.
See the following:
Recording retakes and resits
If a learner undertakes a learning aim, finishes learning, takes the final assessment and fails, then this aim should be closed and recorded as ‘not achieved’ (Outcome code 3).
Where this learner is then identified as needing further support or additional learning in order to pass the assessment, then a new learning aim should be recorded as a restart with a Funding adjustment for prior learning to account for the new learning required to pass the resit. You must not amend the original, closed learning aim.
Where no further learning is required and the learner is only resitting the assessment or exam, then this is not funded by the ESFA and a new aim must not be recorded.
This applies to aims so if you have closed the Programme aim how do you record an EPA resit outcome?
20 November 2020 12:08
Thanks for this, however, this raises another question for me that none of the guidance they refer to answers the question.
If a student fails part of the first full attempt at EPA, I get we enter the achievement date and 'no achievement', but can we then update the status to 'achieved' once they have re-sat and passed (no restudy just re-take of assessment)?
If we can, then do we update the achievement date too otherwise the data will suggest it was achieved on an incorrect date?
Do you have an opinion on this?
20 November 2020 13:15
This was exactly my question back after getting this. I think it *implies* we don't change the date, just the Outcome field, but asked for confirmation.
After all, the field isn't about *achievement* (despite it's annoying name) but completion.
20 November 2020 13:34
Ok, thanks Steve, I will await your update.
20 November 2020 13:45
Don't hold your breath, took seven weeks to get this far ;)
20 November 2020 14:01
(NB there have been other updates, but none of them are clear, so still trying to get a proper answer!)
03 December 2020 17:02
We have an apprentice that failed the initial EPA in this academic year, but has now re-sat and passed. Did Service Desk respond to your query?
22 January 2021 14:57
No, but thanks for reminding me to chase it!
The path of least resistance for your learner, so you get the money, is to mark them 2&1 with the ach date as the resit.
22 January 2021 15:15
Hi SteveH, did you get a response back from the ESFA about recording the EPA resit?
29 March 2021 12:51
Did I heck...
29 March 2021 13:06
We have an apprentice that has taken all parts of EPA and did not achieve 2 of them, he is not going to be re-sitting these so I have coded him as 2 for completion status and 3 as outcome, where do I put the end date which is 10/0/2021, his learning end date was in last year July 2020.
23 April 2021 10:29
The completion date is entered in the Achievement date field for Apprentices for EPA pass or fail (this will enable the completion payment to be paid), if they resit the EPA and pass then you can update the outcome field.
23 April 2021 10:56
Further to this and I am hoping someone can help.
So our apprentice has failed 1/2 of their EPA. Am I right in putting:
Completion Status: 2
Outcome Status: 3
Achievement date: 20/04/2021 (the date he failed)
07 May 2021 11:46
The Achievement date is the date the learner concludes the End point assessment period, this may be the date he failed.
07 May 2021 12:08
Assuming he's definitely not resitting, then yes.
I actually need to update this as I got a *slightly* clearer response back last week.
07 May 2021 12:09
OK, here's the conversation (because just posting the response on its own wouldn't help:
The EPAO will record the information as a 'fail' in the apprenticeship service until the apprentice re-sits the element of the EPA that they have failed and 'pass' it. As per the documentation, if there is no additional learning it is not recorded in the ILR.
How does this response even come close to answering my question? Why is this whole process SO frustrating?
I’ve been trying to get this sorted for over six months now and you REFUSE to give me a clear answer.
I don’t care what it says on AS, my question was purely about the field that is called AchDate in the ILR.
Do we stick with the original date of (failed) completion for the EPA or do we change it when a learner resits (and achieves)? That’s literally it.
The advice offered by the Specialist Team, who were investigating this query for you, is that if the learner failed their EPA and if there is no additional learning required, you should not record this failed EPA in the ILR.
07 May 2021 12:18
So, basically, no ach date til resits are completed.
Still no response on what happens if we record a fail in good faith only for the learner to come back two months later saying they want to resit now...
07 May 2021 12:20
Based on this update, what happens if it crosses a year end, would you still record the fail to secure the funding, the apprentice might intend to re-sit but then change their mind and if this crosses a year end you potentially lose the completion and balancing payments as there would be no later achievement date?
07 May 2021 14:05
I wanted to add to this thread as I too have been in touch with the ESFA helpdesk, and received the below:
If a learner fails EPA and achieves on resit only, then the outcome only can be amended to show that they have now achieved. No other fields are to be amended and a new aim is not required.
If further learning has been identified for the learner before their retake, then a new aim is required as a restart with a funding adjustment . The new aim is recorded this way so that any further funding due can be paid before the retake.
Please see the link below regarding outcomes:-
https://guidance.submit-learner-data.service.gov.uk/previous/20-21/psm/article/recording-learning-outcomes (Recording retakes and resits)
So......... this is saying that only the outcome is changed and no date changes for resits, and for retakes we DO have to add a new learning aim, (which goes against what Martin had said?).
I have responded to the helpdesk and asked if they can look at this thread and get a definitive answer for all providers.
18 August 2021 09:26
I do not see the issue as where no further learning is required, and the learner is only resitting the EPA all you need to do is update the outcome to show that they have achieved. If you have not already updated the completion status and Achievement date (completion date) then you will need to complete that step.
18 August 2021 09:48
That is what we would do. Where a learner has completed but failed EPA we would code as 2:3 and add the completion date as the last date of EPA. If the learner then goes on to resit and then achieves we would update to show as a 2:1. (The ESFA confirmed that the completion date would not be altered from the one originally entered).
Where a learner needs to Retake - goes back into learning, we would code the failed EPA as a 2:3 and add a completion date of the final date of EPA, we would then add new aims with a restart indicator, set the new period of learning. Any funding that is remaining, and then follow the process to go back into gateway.
18 August 2021 10:09
Hi Martin/anyone who can provide clarity, following on from Karen's response above, I just need to ask:
Q If a learner was recorded on the R14 as completed 2:3, but the outcome is then updated on the R03 to 2:1, would the record appear on the 2020/21 QAR or the 2021/22 Hybrid end of year report (due to the latest update falling into the reporting year - as per below?) I think it still remains on the 2020/21 QAR as there hasn't been a change to the dates only the outcome, but I'd be grateful for clarity to make sure this is right.
The overall QAR, pass rate and retention rate calculations use the hybrid end year of the learning aim. The hybrid end year is the latter of the:
a achievement year (for apprenticeship standards on funding model 36 only)
b planned end year of the learning aim
c actual end year of the learning aim
d reporting year.
12 November 2021 14:09
R03 would be 2021/22 as the reporting year
12 November 2021 14:52