Ben James

Employer payments for late starter

Created

Please settle a debate..

Based on the fact that payments are calculated by equally dividing the TNP (less 20% retention) by the duration in months (start date vs. PED), if a provider is late processing a start on the Apprenticeship Service (let's say their start date was August, but it wasn't processed until December for some reason), would the first payment subtracted from an Employer's digital account be larger to account for the months missed, or would all payments from the date they're processed be recalculated to account for the lateness and to ensure they're all the same amount? 

Replies

No one has replied to this post.


Steveh

I'm 98% certain it's the former, because, as you say, it's calculated from start and planned end. I know I've seen plenty of double first payments where it's been slightly late, so no reason to suppose it would be different if it was quite a bit later?

Ben James

Appreciate the nigh certainty Steve! This was my assumption too but wanted to gauge the opinions of others before reiterating to colleagues. 

Martin West

Just to confirm:

The account will be larger to account for the months missed

Ben James

Sorry @Martin West - are you saying the first payment will be larger to account for the months missed between Aug-Dec? Or all payments will be slightly larger because it'll recalculate the duration to effectively be Dec-PED?

Ruth C-J

Yep, this happens to us a lot, and we just get multiple months' funding in the first month in which they were in the ILR. Same if you get a data lock that stops payment. Once you fix it, you get all due payments the next month.

Just watch out that this doesn't happen at the year crossover. If you had an apprentice that started in July, and the enrolment isn't in the ILR and data lock free by R14, you'll never get that July payment. They don't back date payments cross academic years.

Martin West

The first payment will be larger and include any payments missed due to late processing

Ben James

Thank you all, as always immensely helpful even if it's just as a sounding board! 

Ruth C-J

Yes, sorry if that wasn't clear, just the first payment is higher, as Martin has said.

If an apprentice finishes early you get a bulk payment at the end too, called a balancing payment. If they finish two months early, you get a triple payment in the last month.

Steveh

EXCEPT! If they're on Standards and they get to Gateway early and you put the Actual End Date in, you don't get the balancing payment until they complete EPA!  Took six months last year to get them to admit that this is happening on purpose...

Ben James

@Steveh.. are we in danger of delving back into the 'achievement date' naming convention debacle again? Haha

Steveh

Don't. Get. Me. Started. ;)

Jessicar

So could we be in a scenario where when a large payment is taken it exhausts the employers levy pot so they have to pay co-investment?

Steveh

It's not impossible, suspect it would only be an issue where they are new levy payers at this point in time. Seem to recall it being a bit of an issue back when we first started.

Ruth C-J

Jessicar - Yes! It hasn't yet happened to us, but I spotted this right at the beginning of the reforms. It could push them into insufficient funds, and they would have to pay 5% of the excess, or we'd get no completion 20%. I made it really clear to our apprenticeship team that they must not give artificially long planned durations for this reason, as early completions could now be a problem for levy payers.