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Created 24 February 2021 11:21
Morning all,I’m not sure if anyone can help with this one or not but wondered if anyone could offer any advice…We have an apprentice that has changed employer, leaving the original employer at the end of October 2020 and starting the new employer at the beginning of November, the break in employment between the two being less than 30 days.As suggested in the Apprenticeship Funding Rules for Main Providers V3, page 55, paragraph 276.1 “When employment or an apprenticeship agreement has ended (resignation, dismissal or any other action by the apprentice or the employer that results in the apprenticeship agreement ending, with the exception of redundancy) and new employment has commenced within 30 days we do not expect a withdrawal to be recorded”.This being the case we have recorded a straight forward change of employer on the ILR (as of the date the apprentice started with the new employer) and all correct processes have been followed via the Apprenticeship Service (the original employer stopping the Apprentices record as of their last date of employment with them and the new employer recording the correct start date etc).
Despite this fact we have since come up against a DLOCK_10 error which incorrectly states that the new employer has stopped the apprentice’s record (even though they have not). Only the original employer has performed this action.The Apprenticeship Service are suggesting this is because we should have withdrawn the apprentice and re-started them on the ILR despite the funding rules advising the complete opposite (as the break in employment was/is less than 30 days). They have advised it is because the break in employment overlaps two months and isn’t within the same month (should this make any difference…is there something I’ve missed)?Has anyone else come up against this issue and if so how was it resolved? I’m in the mind of thinking it is an anomaly on the Apprenticeship Data Match Report as we have followed all the rules correctly but could be wrong. Should this DLOCK error be appearing in this scenario and do we need, as they have suggested to withdraw and restart the apprentice despite the flexibility in the funding rules?We have also been paid for the Apprentice in question despite the DLOCK error which surely would not have been the case if we’d recorded the change on the ILR etc. incorrectly?Many thanksEmma
No one has replied to this post.
Let's start at the bottom, if you're being paid I wouldn't worry about it too much!
DLOCK_10 is *usually* a "for info" DLOCK because you know the learner has withdrawn which is why the employer has used the stop, so, unlike DLOCKs 1-9 they're not "clearable" in the same way because they're not actually errors.
I agree that you've done this correctly by not withdrawing the learner and I'm very disappointed that AS has suggested the opposite. Whilst doing what they suggest might clear up this little reporting issue, you'll be affecting your Achievement Rate unnecessarily so I'd strongly advise not doing what they've told you.
The rules are explicitly 30 days which must, by definition, allow a learner to cross month end (in fact, someone finishing 30 or 31 Jan could cross two month ends, but let's not test that one out, eh!!!????), so the systems should deal with it, you shouldn't be bending to what the system wants.
24 February 2021 12:45
Many thanks for your reply Steve.I didn’t think what they were suggesting made any sense but wanted to know if anyone else had come up against this problem and what the outcome was.I did bounce the query back to the Apprenticeship Service early this morning, pointing out the obvious so we’ll see what is advised next.
24 February 2021 13:59
Hi, I know this is avery old post, but did the Apprenticeship Service ever get back to you re affecting the achievement rates?
We have learners in the same situation and I'm worried how this will affect our achievement rates if I withdraw and restart.
15 November 2021 15:41
Hi Gaynor,After much toing and froing between the Apprenticeship Service and the Funding Rules Policy Team the Apprenticeship Service did stand by their original advice (that we should have withdrawn and restarted the apprentice), however as the DLOCK_10 error was not effecting payments and we continued to receive the correct funding for this learner in relation to both employers they then advised that we leave the data in our ILR as it was (a straight forward change of employer). We never really did get to the bottom of the problem as to why the DLOCK error was present…I still suspect it was an anomaly on the data match report but could be wrong. With regards to achievement rates, unfortunately this learner decided to leave our training programme early and didn’t achieve anyway, so for us had a negative impact regardless. Sorry I can’t be of any further help, this one did take the Apprenticeship Service a good while to try and resolve, our query was raised in February and wasn’t closed off until July.Emma
15 November 2021 16:44
Thanks Emma, it's crazy really as the procedures they have now issued actually ask us to ask the employer to put a false date in their Apprenticeship service account: eg Apprentice left employer 18 Oct but started with new employer 1 Nov - in this case they expect us to ask the old employer to change the leaving date to November!!! Really??? I cannot believe that they expect us to ask an employer to lie about dates because their system is not fit for purpose. Why would an empolyer be willing to input an incorrect date, and why should we ask them to???
Diabolical service and advice :((
16 November 2021 08:44
It's rubbish. The system should accommodate the situation, not the other way round. The updated guidance reflects what they've told you - Stop dates to use following a change of employer where the gap in employment is 30 days or less – Apprenticeship Service Support (education.gov.uk), but when you're putting something like "If the original employer does not want to move the stop date" then you're asking for issues.
16 November 2021 09:14