information about how you use ‘Get help with ESFA services’. We use this information to make the
website work as well as possible and improve government services.
You have accepted all cookies. You can change your cookie settings at any
This is a new service – your feedback will help us to improve it.
Created 04 June 2021 15:19
We are entering learning ending when apprentices reaches gateway and this is creating an issue for achievement rates. We use PICs and learners at gateway are being counted as completed but not achieved- this impacts negatively on achievements. We have tried not entering learning end and gateway date and this rectifies the issue. We think this may cause a problem at year end as the gateway end date needs entering in the correct funding year.
No one has replied to this post.
That's PICs' problem, not the way you're recording them... I'd suggest you point this out to them and get them to update their reporting.
When someone goes to Gateway, you *have* to put the date in.
04 June 2021 15:59
Unfortunately, we don't yet know how to handle this situation as there's no 2019/20 QAR Technical Specification. We're aware that what PICS is doing right now isn't correct, but we're waiting for the ESFA to confirm what should be done.
Based on the previous Technical Specification, they’ll be included in the rules for P_Count_Overall and P_Ach_Overall as they’ve ended but not achieved, although in theory they still can change from “non-achiever” to “achiever” once the EPA is done. The QAR includes ILRs to R04 of the following year so all prior-year learners have until 30th November to complete the EPA, but we can’t find anything to suggest there's a time limit on the EPA period so there could still be some learners who fall into this category. We believe that some standards (such as architecture) expect EPA periods of up to 6 months.
Once we've had confirmation on how this specific situation should be coded, we'll update the reports in PICS/PICSWeb accordingly.
I hope that clarifies the situation, but please do get back to us if you have further questions.
07 June 2021 10:41
Slight correction to my previous post: the 2020/21 QAR Technical Specification was released in the last couple of weeks but still doesn't address this specific issue, hence why we've asked the ESFA for clarification.
07 June 2021 11:04
Thank you for posting, I'm glad I have seen this as I've warned my managers that PICS figures are slightly off as they are treating the learners in gateway as a negative (understandably) but when I read the QAR specification last week I couldn't see how the ESFA have addressed the issue of the learners in gateway.
We would like to know because of those who finish their practical period in June/July may not have taken their assessments by the R14 submission so wasn't sure what the impact of that would be in our QAR.
08 June 2021 06:04
We are PICS users too so would be interested in the repsonse please .
14 June 2021 10:21
This still doesn't look to have been addressed in the PICS QAR reporting. The 2020/21 QAR technical spec states
"If the Programme Type is 25, and the Funding Model is 36, and…the achievement year is unpopulated, and the ILR data was last reported in 2020/21 or after…" Then they will be carried across into the next QAR hybrid year (2021/22) and not counted as a leaver in 2020/21.
This will be applied to anyone who is in EPA i.e. coded as Completion status = 1 and Outcome = 8 and the achievement date is unpopulated, then it should be carried across into the next QAR hybrid year (2021/22) and not counted as a leaver in 2020/21.
27 July 2021 13:35
Sorry just to add we checked the R10 in-year QAR figures released at by the ESFA and this confirmed any learners in EPA who have not yet completed are not in the count for leavers in the 2020/21 hybrid year.
27 July 2021 13:42
We agree with your conclusion, above, but if we follow that approach then the whole thing just gets weird. We have again reached out to the ESFA for clarification on this.
02 August 2021 10:05
Just a quick update for everyone.
Having finally had the clarification we needed, we've been able to update the calculations in PICSWeb and PICS. PICSWeb was updated at the weekend, and the changes for PICS will go out with the release of PICS 21 on Friday evening.
Please let us have your feedback if you spot anything that doesn't seem right.
10 August 2021 20:16