Jenna Carlin

Apprenticeships completetion rather than achievement payment?

Created

Hello, 

I have some apprentices that passed all parts of the apprenticeship but failed several times functional skills. I achieved (2:1) the aims on the component aims that they completed and achieved, I completed but no achievement (2:3) their functional skills on the component aims and for the overall apprenticeship (Programme aim) I completed but did not achieve (2:3) as they didn't pass functional skills. I expected not to receive the 20% for the apprenticeship as they did not achieve (going off AEB where it's achievement payment) but on my reports I have received the 20%. Have I just misunderstood and we still receive the payment due to them completing the apprenticeship and it is a completion payment rather than an achievement payment?
I hope this rather long post is understandable!

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Martin West

It is a completion payment rather than an achievement payment

Sue Bishop

Hang on though - if they didn't achieve FS then they couldn't achieve apprenticeship?  If a framework then you couldn't claim achievement from ACE and if a standard you couldn't claim they had gone through EPA and failed, so I would say no you shouldn't get completion payment because they aren't complete.

Jenna Carlin

It was a framework, so Sue are you suggesting I should 3:3 (withdraw) rather than completed but not achieve 2:3 as they completed all parts of the framework but failed the FS?

Martin West

Completion of the Programme aim reflects all the mandatory requirements including FS where these are required, if they did not achieve the FS (excepting L2 FS within a L2 Apprenticeship) then they have not completed the Programme.

Sue Bishop

Yes, Jenna, if they have not completed the programme aim, then they would have to be a withdrawal.

 

Jenna Carlin

I double checked with service desk and they have informed me to complete with no achievement;

Hello,

I have an apprentice that completed his framework apprenticeship achieving the component aims but failed their mandatory functional skills. I have completed and achieved their component aims on the ILR, completed with no achievement their functional skills but with their programme aim am correct in completing with no achievement or do I need to withdraw with no achievement as they did not achieve their functional skills? 

Kind regards,

Jenna

Hi Jenna,

Thank you for your enquiry.

If the learner does not intend to continue and retry Maths/English, the programme should be marked completed with no achievement. If the learner does retry, the Outcome code can be amended up to R14 of this year. 

Regards,

John

ESFA Customer Service

Hi John

Thank you for getting back to me. Can I confirm that the ZPROG001 code (overall apprenticeship) should be marked as completed with no achievement due to failing functional skills? And not a withdrawal.

Kind Regards,

Jenna

Hi Jenna. 

Yes, that's correct as functional skills are a mandatory component of all apprenticeship frameworks. 

Regards,

John

 

Alan Taws

see guidance extract below - taken from Apprenticeship gateway and resits for end-point assessment (EPA) - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

This seems to be saying that in order to agree the learner can go to Gateway they must meet minimum requirements, part of which is "have evidence of or pass functional skill levels in English and maths" - I'm therefore assuming if the Apprentice has failed their Functional Skills level 1 then they can't go to Gateway. So is the statement above from an ESFA representative not contradicting their own guidance?

Gateway

Gateway takes place before an EPA can start. The employer and training provider will review their apprentice’s knowledge, skills and behaviours to see if they have met the minimum requirements of the apprenticeship set out in the apprenticeship standard, and are ready to take the assessment.

Minimum requirements

To meet the minimum requirements set out in the apprenticeship standard an apprentice needs to:

  • display occupational competency
  • have evidence of or pass functional skill levels in English and maths
  • complete mandatory training
  • take any qualifications set out in the standard
  • meet the minimum duration for their apprenticeship training

Only apprentices who complete gateway successfully can start the EPA.

(Edited)

Martin West

The above posting is only applicable to Frameworks but for standards the completion status remains as 1 until they withdraw or complete the EPA but that is correct for a L2 Apprenticeship standards, but they also must study and take the test for L2 (they can pass or fail) excepting where the exceptions to the regular English and maths minimum requirements, for people with special educational needs, learning difficulties or disabilities applies where E3 is acceptable if agreed with the employer.

For L3 Apprenticeships Standards or higher the requirement is achievement of L2 in Maths and English.

HTH