Sarah Wartnaby

Apps Achievement date - Query

Created

Good Morning All, 

I hope you are all well. 

Just needing a sense check ILR contract years and Achievements! EPA results are now coming through and learners after sitting last component have achieved. However the completion of EPA is in August, so from the ILR point of view should we:

Change the 20/21 ILR to a 2&8 and then change them in the 21/22 ILR to a 2&1 with the achievement date? Or do we record everything in the 20/21 ILR. I am assuming it's the first one and if correct, what impact does this have on achievements rates for 20/21 (or does it not)?

Kindest Regards

Sarah

Replies

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Ben James

In 20/21 it should be 1/8 on the programme aim because they have not completed until the EPA has been done, and therefore you don't know the outcome yet. 

In 21/22 it should be 2/1 on the programme aim because it's now completed, and the outcome is known/pass. You'll also then add the achievement date and ensure the ACT 'to' date is changed to reflect this.

(Edited)

Melissa Haase

Ben James

Should it be continuing in 20/21 if they have finished all learning (relating to after Aug 2019 starts anyway)? In the ILR spec it says:

  • For apprenticeship standards on a programme aim, where the learner has completed all learning activities and begun the End point assessment period prior to 1st August 2019, the Learning Actual End date in the 19/20 ILR will continue to include the end point assessment (as per the 18/19 ILR specification). For apprenticeship standards on a programme aim, where the learner has not completed all learning activities by 1st August 2019, the Learning Actual End Date will be completed after all learning has taken place and does NOT include the end point assessment period.

Planned end date is the training period (Aug 2019 and after) so it doesn't make sense it would include the EPA, only if before Aug 2019.

 

 

(Edited)

Martin West

Same as Ben.

You should not be recording 2 and 8 in the 20/21 ILR before the EPA is completed you are required to record 1 and 8.

When the EPA is complete, and the results are known in 21/22 you update the completion status to 2 and the outcome as appropriate together with the Achievement date.

You only enter data in the 20/21 ILR that applies up to 31/07/2021, any data from 01/08/2021 is entered in the 21/22 ILR.

HTH

 

Ben James

Regarding completions;

"In order to be recorded as ‘Completed’ (Completion status code 2), both the training and end point assessment activities for the programme must be completed. An end point assessment that has resulted in a failed outcome can be classed as complete as long as the learner reaches the end of the end point assessment period, rather than withdrawing. If either of these have not been completed, then the programme aim cannot be recorded with Completion status code 2."

Whether both activities are included with the PED are essentially irrelevant (re. Pre/Post August 2019 starts)

(Edited)

Sarah Wartnaby

Martin West Ben James - So my next question! :) when we record as a 1&8 in the ILR is the learning end date to be inputted as the EPA gateway? or LDL? 

Sorry for the question I am making sure my knowledge is correct before we go to hardclose.

Thanks

(Edited)

Ben James

The 'completed date' will be the date that all learning activities were completed. Once they complete their EPA (whether pass or fail) you'll enter the 'achievement date' as the date all EPA activities concluded, update the completion status to 2, and the outcome to whatever the outcome was (1 for pass, or 3 for fail) but this will be in the 21/22 ILR by the sounds of your first post. 

(Edited)

Martin West

Hi Sarah,

The Last day in learning, some may say the gateway but that is how I interpret the funding rules.

Sarah Wartnaby

Ben James Many Thanks. I thought this was the case but just had a mind blank so thought I would triple check in the conversation around this area.

Have a nice day all and thank you for helping me out.

Melissa Haase

Ben James - thank you! That does make sense actually - I think I was just concerned about the actual end date needing to be the end of learning, although from the rules perspective it doesn't make logical sense!!

I've learnt something there though!

Melissa Corry

Hi all, 

Sorry to jump on this trail so late but we're experiencing a similar issue. 

We have a batch of apprentices whose learning actual end date was in 20/21 but their EPA wasn't complete until 21/22. The ESFA have advised us input the learning actual end date, comp status 1 & outcome code 8 for R13 & R14. However, we've received the following errors - 

CompStatus_02 / The Learning Actual End Date must not be returned for this completion status. 

As we're not expecting their completion payments until R04, should we just accept the errors and submit? Or would you advise another route? 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Melissa

Martin West

You only use this for Programme aims for standards, will error if used on other aims

Salford

Martin West Ben James Please can I just ask, we have learners who have finished their degree but awaiting EPA - We recorded them as Completion Status 1 and Outcome 8 and all has been fine but now in R05 we are getting an error of 'The completion status is not valid for this outcome' - Should they be completion status 2 and outcome 8 until they have sat EPA?

Thanks,

Claire

Ben James

What is the error code you're getting?

Per the PSM, for the programme;

"When the training period for the apprenticeship standard is complete, but the end point assessment period is incomplete, the Outcome must be recorded as code 8 ‘Learning activities are complete but the outcome is not yet known’. Where the Outcome is recorded as code ‘8’, the learning actual end date must also recorded, as all learning activities have taken place." 

"In order to be recorded as ‘Completed’ (Completion status code 2), both the training and end point assessment activities for the programme must be completed."

Ben James

Is the error on the programme aim or the main aim? The validation rules confirm it should not trigger for LearningDelivery.AimType = 1 (the programme aim) if it's an FM36/99 learner on a Standard, but it will trigger for component aims;

Salford

Ben James The error of 'The Completion status is not valid for this Outcome' is on the programme aim (not the ZPROG)