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Created 08 November 2021 09:13
Query. We have conducted an initial assessment for a learner and have reduced the funding for prior attainment. However, the ESFA have further reduced the funding, I am assuming they have taken off funding that has already been drawn down by the previous provider.
My problem is,
* if this is the case, how do we find out how much funding the learner has already accrued
* at a recent ESFA audit webinar is stated that as long as we had done a comprehensive initial assessment and proportion funding, if we thought that the learner still needed training "again" for whatever reason then this was okay. So, I don't understand how the ESFA can then just change the funding that we have already agreed with the employer
No one has replied to this post.
I'm not sure what was said at the webinar, but ESFA absolutely DO cap you at the band maximum minus what the first provider drew down in DAS/ESFA funding. If the provider had half the on programme funding, but the student is way behind half way, that would have to be a discussion between the employer and the previous provider. They could possibly back date the DAS stop date (won't work cross years) or the provider could manually refund the employer. It can leave some apprentices in a position where no new provider can afford to finish their apprenticeship because their first provider was unscrupulous. ESFA's position is that the employer should have been keeping track of progress, and realised they were behind, so they won't help with this.
To work out what is left in the band maximum, you need the details of the original contract (the employer should be able to provide this); Start date, Planned End Date, Actual End Date, Price. From that, you can calculate what is left. Sometimes you may find it's still wrong as what the employer believed was not what the first provider had recorded. You can't know until you get capped once you start returning them in the ILR.
You can of course charge above this capped amount, but the employer has to pay you the extra. If the first provider reimbursed them, they may be happy to do that.
08 November 2021 09:37
Ruths explanation is spot on. I would just add that, if the ESFA have capped you at the funding band, then any funding you have claimed above this will now show as employer co-investment required. As it is now classed as over the maximum funding band.
It is a nightmare :((
08 November 2021 14:15
Thank you for your replies.
Years ago, the ESFA did produce a report, with the ULIN or UKPRN of the previous provider if there was a match with previous funding qualification. Do you know if they still do this. I've had a look but can't find anything
17 November 2021 13:53
There used to be an FRM report that looked for overlapping enrolments between providers, but they scrapped that. I actually found it useful, but I think it was causing problems. I don't remember one that wasn't overlapping.
If you check the Apps Monthly Payment report, you should be able to see what the expected in the "co-investment (below band upper limit) due from employer" columns. With a bit of work, you can reverse engineer that to work out how much you got capped at. As I understand it, if that's zero each month (or just the 5% you expected if the employer is non-levy), then you haven't been capped.
We've had it before where we know students were on an apprenticeship somewhere else, but it doesn't appear in the PLR. Very odd.
17 November 2021 16:38
Thank you Ruth, I knew I wasn't cracking up. I loved the FRM report (very sad), and now there just seems to be load of different places that you have to look for different reports everywhere, which is ridiculous really, and takes up so much time. Everything should just be in one place. I've given up trying to use the VYED BI Desktop Dashboard reports as I can't seem to get any data out of it,
I've give your reverse engineering a go. Thank you again x
17 November 2021 16:46
It took me a while to understand how to get the VYED ones, but I definitely recommend looking at them. Go to VYED > Data Quality Assurance > Dashboard > Provider Level Information (tab at the bottom) > Click "View all summarised data" button at the top right. Then come's the bit that really puzzled me! You have to hover over the bit I've circled in red, to get the ... to appear, then choose "Export data";
A window pops up, leave it as "Summarized data" and click Export. That works for me and I get one sheet with a selection of different "errors", with the report ID that maps back to the instructions. This isn't the way the guidance says.
17 November 2021 17:12 (Edited)