Carrie Rogers

Part Time AFTER Break In Learning

Created

Learner was full time prior to BIL and had 100 days remaining.

She is coming back 20 hours a week.  

Can we adjust the remaining 100 days to take her new part time status into consideration for the ILR.  It WILL be done on all her docs (CommStat, AppAgg, Learning Plan etc) - but can we extend her ped in the ILR?

We already have our thoughts on this - wondering what other people think please?

Replies

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Martin West

You must extend the training period to account for the reduced employment hours, but you must not change the planned end date on the ILR but instead agree the revised planned end date of the practical period with the employer and record this on an updated commitment statement and Apprenticeship agreement.

HTH

Steveh

I think your question boils down to "should the remaining bit be longer than 100 days?" to which the answer is "yes", as Martin says, so you're not *really* changing the PED because you've not yet set it for the last bit of the programme, if you see what I mean?

Carrie Rogers

strictly speaking there isnt a PED at this point - so can we agree that the remaining 100 days will now take (eg) 130 and this date (restart +130) can go in the ILR as well as on the docs?

Carrie Rogers

Steveh - didnt see your reply before I added my comments.
My understanding was that if there were 100 "funded" days remaining then this is all we could add back into the ILR - but that all the docs and the plan could/should support the learners actual requirements.
So is this not the case?

 

Martin West

Sorry but my reply referred to change in working hours only but as Steve  has pointed out when returning from a BIL you may set the planned end date as appropriate.

Steveh

Yes, because of the change in hours you can make the second bit 130 days instead of 100 (or whatever the appropriate sum is). You still get the same amount of money either way, it's just spread out over a longer period.

Carrie Rogers

Thanks for your help.  That was our thought too but just wanted to check understanding.

thank you

Ben James

Hoping to hijack this slightly as we've got one that is exactly the same and my brain is mashed potato this afternoon..

  1. Are we saying that, as well as extending the PED relative to the time the learner spent on their break, that we can also add some days to account for the fact they're now working reduced hours?
  2. If yes, do we need to evidence how we've arrived at that figure? The part time duration calculator doesn't seem appropriate in this instance?
  3. Is this practice effectively circumventing the P335.4 because it's in conjunction with a BIL which allows more flexibility?

Martin West

When returning from a BIL you must create a new programme aim so you are not changing the original planned end date but creating a new planned end date based on the minimum duration requirements and the circumstances arising from the plan for the restart period.

So, the rule still applies you must not change a PED once it has been entered on a programme aim as this must be constant for the funding calculations in DAS.

HTH

 

Steveh

1. yes

2. would try and be consistent with *some sort* of calculation applied to all the learners it affects, but it's still going to come down to a professional judgement on how long it's going to take based on their hours of work (and, again, all yr doing is stretching the remaining money out, not getting more money)

3. yes but no because it's not the same PED, it's a whole new one.

Ben James

Steveh, re. a calculation.. what do you think to the following? Obviously I am aware the OTJ hours will not be changing on the ILR, I've just put "New" OTJ hours as an illustration of how many the apprentice would've been asked to complete if they were the hours from the start;

Seems like quite an extension, but I guess the apprentice has been on a break for over 2 years, and their normal working hours have dropped by about 48%