Andrea Scotti

Residual TNP 3 & 4 amounts due to change of employer

Created

We have an apprentice who has changed employer and I am following the guidance creating a 'Change of Employer' status in the Employer Status section.  I know I have to then add into the financial record the Residual TNP 3 & 4 - my question is do I pro-rata this amount to account for what funding has already been drawn down OR do the amounts for TNP 3&4 remain exactly the same as the original TNP 1 & 2? MTIA

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Steveh

Short answer is it's what's left, not the full amount, but that will also depend on what you've negotiated with the new employer.

Peter Keating

Following on from that slightly, do we do the same in that we should Pro Rata the value of TNP 3 & 4 where the EPA price changes right the near the end of the course?

Martin West

No you would just record the reduced EPA costs in TNP 4 and your agreed training costs in TNP 3.

Peter Keating

Thank you Martin.

Would the date of the agreed training costs therefore be the same as the original training costs date? Or will the date be the same as the reduced EPA costs?

Don't want to get it wrong and draw down more than what has been agreed.

Martin West

The TNP 3/4 dates would be the date started with new employer

Peter Keating

Sorry Martin. Maybe I have worried it wrong.

The apprentice has not moved employer yet the price of the End Point Assessment has changed since the learners started. As an example original agreed price:

TNP1 Training Price - £4000 01/01/2020 TNP2 EPA Price - £1000 01/01/2020

Then near the end of the programme on 1 September 2021 EPA price has been reduced to £750. Do we enter it as follows:

TNP3 Training Price - £4000 01/09/2021 TNP2 EPA Price - £750 01/09/2021

OR

TNP3 Training Price - £4000 01/01/2020 TNP2 EPA Price - £750 01/09/2021

TIA

 

Martin West

You should not be using TNP 3 with TNP 2, you just need to revise the TNP 1 and 2 from the date of the change in the current year such as:

TNP1 Training Price - £4000 01/09/2021 TNP2 EPA Price - £750 01/09/2021

Peter Keating

SOrry that was meant to read

TNP3 Training Price - £4000 01/09/2021 TNP4 EPA Price - £750 01/09/2021

OR

TNP3 Training Price - £4000 01/01/2020 TNP4 EPA Price - £750 01/09/2021

Are you now saying I should be changing the date or adding a new TNP1 & TNP2:

TNP1 Training Price - £4000 01/01/2020 TNP2 EPA Price - £750 01/09/2021

Martin West

A residual price is the funding from that point forward.

It is complicated but you do not use a residual price (TNP 3,4) for the circumstance you have It is normally use when training price renegotiated or on change of employer, you need to add a new TNP 1,2 record as:

TNP1 Training Price - £4000 01/01/2020 TNP2 EPA Price - £750 01/09/2021

If the start date had been in the current funding year (after 31/07/2021) then you could have amended the original record.

Peter Keating

Thank you Martin. This will possible explain why we are not getting funding as used the TNP4 to amend the EPA fee

Angie Peck

Hello

I have been following this thread as I have had a few learners changing employers. 

The problem that I am finding is that following the funding guidance, we renegotiate the remaining cost of training for the apprentice with the new employer, accounting for learning they have completed with the first that we are losing out on funding, for example:

£6000 total cost

TNP1 = £5400; TNP2=600 

Programme length 18 months

Remove the 20% (£1200) achievement payment to leave 80% Monthly payments (£4800) £266.66 per month.

The learner was with their first employer for 10 months

We would allocate the first 10 months of payments to the first employer =£2667 (rounded up) and it would leave £3333 including the 20% outcome to negotiate with the 2nd employer as that seems fair and reflects the prior learning with the first employer.

TNP3 = £2733; TNP4=£600

However, in this scenario, it seems that we the provider end up losing out on payments as the ESFA seems to recalculate the 20% based on the new TNP3 and TNP4 so instead of getting our £1200 which we have worked for across both employers, we only get £667.

Have I misunderstood the funding guidance as learners seem to move employers more frequently now and it will have a financial impact on our forecast revenue?

Kind regards

Angie

Steveh

But you still get £6000?

If anything, you're getting a good deal out of it because you get more money if the learner gets to the end and doesn't complete?