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Created 27 January 2022 10:13
We have an apprentice who has changed employer and I am following the guidance creating a 'Change of Employer' status in the Employer Status section. I know I have to then add into the financial record the Residual TNP 3 & 4 - my question is do I pro-rata this amount to account for what funding has already been drawn down OR do the amounts for TNP 3&4 remain exactly the same as the original TNP 1 & 2? MTIA
No one has replied to this post.
See: Provider support manual: How to record changes to the apprenticeship (submit-learner-data.service.gov.uk)
27 January 2022 10:39
Short answer is it's what's left, not the full amount, but that will also depend on what you've negotiated with the new employer.
27 January 2022 11:10
Following on from that slightly, do we do the same in that we should Pro Rata the value of TNP 3 & 4 where the EPA price changes right the near the end of the course?
07 February 2022 12:43
No you would just record the reduced EPA costs in TNP 4 and your agreed training costs in TNP 3.
07 February 2022 13:05
Thank you Martin.
Would the date of the agreed training costs therefore be the same as the original training costs date? Or will the date be the same as the reduced EPA costs?
Don't want to get it wrong and draw down more than what has been agreed.
07 February 2022 14:23
The TNP 3/4 dates would be the date started with new employer
07 February 2022 15:00
Sorry Martin. Maybe I have worried it wrong.
The apprentice has not moved employer yet the price of the End Point Assessment has changed since the learners started. As an example original agreed price:
TNP1 Training Price - £4000 01/01/2020 TNP2 EPA Price - £1000 01/01/2020
Then near the end of the programme on 1 September 2021 EPA price has been reduced to £750. Do we enter it as follows:
TNP3 Training Price - £4000 01/09/2021 TNP2 EPA Price - £750 01/09/2021
TNP3 Training Price - £4000 01/01/2020 TNP2 EPA Price - £750 01/09/2021
07 February 2022 15:27
You should not be using TNP 3 with TNP 2, you just need to revise the TNP 1 and 2 from the date of the change in the current year such as:
TNP1 Training Price - £4000 01/09/2021 TNP2 EPA Price - £750 01/09/2021
07 February 2022 15:59
SOrry that was meant to read
TNP3 Training Price - £4000 01/09/2021 TNP4 EPA Price - £750 01/09/2021
TNP3 Training Price - £4000 01/01/2020 TNP4 EPA Price - £750 01/09/2021
Are you now saying I should be changing the date or adding a new TNP1 & TNP2:
TNP1 Training Price - £4000 01/01/2020 TNP2 EPA Price - £750 01/09/2021
07 February 2022 16:44
A residual price is the funding from that point forward.
It is complicated but you do not use a residual price (TNP 3,4) for the circumstance you have It is normally use when training price renegotiated or on change of employer, you need to add a new TNP 1,2 record as:
If the start date had been in the current funding year (after 31/07/2021) then you could have amended the original record.
07 February 2022 17:06
Thank you Martin. This will possible explain why we are not getting funding as used the TNP4 to amend the EPA fee
08 February 2022 14:07
I have been following this thread as I have had a few learners changing employers.
The problem that I am finding is that following the funding guidance, we renegotiate the remaining cost of training for the apprentice with the new employer, accounting for learning they have completed with the first that we are losing out on funding, for example:
£6000 total cost
TNP1 = £5400; TNP2=600
Programme length 18 months
Remove the 20% (£1200) achievement payment to leave 80% Monthly payments (£4800) £266.66 per month.
The learner was with their first employer for 10 months
We would allocate the first 10 months of payments to the first employer =£2667 (rounded up) and it would leave £3333 including the 20% outcome to negotiate with the 2nd employer as that seems fair and reflects the prior learning with the first employer.
TNP3 = £2733; TNP4=£600
However, in this scenario, it seems that we the provider end up losing out on payments as the ESFA seems to recalculate the 20% based on the new TNP3 and TNP4 so instead of getting our £1200 which we have worked for across both employers, we only get £667.
Have I misunderstood the funding guidance as learners seem to move employers more frequently now and it will have a financial impact on our forecast revenue?
21 April 2022 12:46
But you still get £6000?
If anything, you're getting a good deal out of it because you get more money if the learner gets to the end and doesn't complete?
21 April 2022 12:55