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Created 03 February 2022 10:24
Should we produce an new apprenticeship agreement if the learner goes past their planned end date (including practical period) or would we expect this to be between the employer/apprentice and prompt them to do. I have been asked to produce new AA's to cover the duration past these dates, although I am unable to ascertain when the planned end date might be...??
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No as it is only an Estimated end date of practical period, the overall end date records when the apprenticeship agreement must be in place An apprenticeship agreement must be in place when an individual starts a statutory apprenticeship programme and should remain in place throughout the apprenticeship. The end date is when the end-point assessment is due to be completed.
See the notes on the Apprenticeship Agreement.
03 February 2022 10:31
Thanks Martin, that helps to a point, but if the programme duration on the AA has an "End date of apprenticeship (note 3 EPA)" of 31.12.21, but the apprentice has gone past this date for whatever reason and looks like they will continue learning on the programme for another 6 months, before being ready for EPA should a new AA be produced to cover the period from 1.1.22 through to the next anticipated "End date date of apprenticeship (note 3 EPA)", Sorry if I'm not being clear but i don't want to produce unnecessary documents if not needed. My concern is are we as the training provider and the employer falling foul of any funding rules that could be an audit issue?
03 February 2022 10:48
Following this - as I had been wondering the same thing recently. I feel it is creating work for us, but anything to stay as compliant as possible!
03 February 2022 20:38
I don't believe you need to, although if there is some doubt about the Employer's commitment to employing the Apprentice as long as it take for them to reach EPA, it would be a good idea, in order to tie them in. On this occasion you may decide to change the usual saying to..."if in Doubt, DO!"
04 February 2022 08:57
There is no requirement in the funding rules that the Apprenticeship Agreement should be updated in these circumstances and in note 3 on the agreement it is clear that the end date is when the end-point assessment is only recorded as due to be completed. I think it would be an unnecessary burden on Providers to produce a new apprenticeship agreement if the learner goes past their planned end date (including practical period) as so many seam to do so.
There are circumstance’s such as a return from a BIL where it is the employers responsibility to revise the apprenticeship agreement (Par 290) and when changing to a new version of a standard (Par 316) the onus is on the Provider to update the apprenticeship agreement but for a change in working hours where all parties agree that there is a material impact on the current training plan (Par 335) the Provider must work with the employer to extend the apprenticeship agreement.
04 February 2022 09:14
Thanks all for the comments, i've never come across this before but recently moved to a new employer where they believe this should be done, hence my comments. I've also emailed the ESFA directly but have yet to receive a response (apparently 10 days wait). So when they come back to me i'll try to remember to update here the response/guidance.
04 February 2022 10:56
Response from the DfE....quoting funding rules which i had seen but wanted clarity around the circumstances, as usual its open to interpretation so i'll speak with my directors and see what they feel is comfortable for the business and not put us in any awkward situations for audit purposes. Thank you all again for your comments.
Dear Gill CumberYou contacted apprenticeship service support on 2 February 2022.Ticket reference number: 456955.We have solved your issue.The funding rules state:P287 If any circumstances change that affect any agreement made between you and the employer, you must revise existing agreements or create new agreements. This includes but is not limited to: P287.1 changes to the apprentice’s programme (including changing to a new version of a standard (see paragraphs P314 to P327); P287.2 changes to price; P287.3 changes to the apprentice’s eligibility; P287.4 any updates required to the employer’s apprenticeship service account; P287.5 changes to the apprentice’s contract or working pattern; P287.6 changes to the apprenticeship duration; P287.7 changes to the subcontractor; or P287.8 breaks in learning.2122_Provider_Rules__Version_2_To_Publish.pdf (publishing.service.gov.uk)
08 February 2022 10:11
Your request (438820) has been updated. To add additional comments, reply to this email.
Shaun (Apprenticeship Service Support)
Dear Gill.Thank you for contacting Apprenticeship Service Support, my name is Shaun.I understand you have an apprentice who has went passed the expected end date and want to know if a new agreement needs setting up. You would not need to sign another agreement for the learner, if the learner goes past the end date then when the apprentice finishes their apprenticeship the end date can be amended to reflect the actual end date.I hope this clears things up for you Gill
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10 February 2022 14:09