Rachel Gill

Completed not achieved

Created

I have a learner that has completed their EPA but not achieved, I have recorded this in the ILR as 2 Completed the learning activities, date completed and 3 No achievement. But the ILR error report is showing this as an error

AchDate_12  AimType=1|ProgType=25|FundModel=36|LearnActEndDate=09/08/2021|CompStatus=2|AchDate=|

The Achievement date must be returned

 

But the learner has not achieved so no date to be returned. Can someone please advise.

Replies

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Ben James

"Achievement" is a bit of a misnomer.. it just refers to the date the programme concluded, whether pass or fail. You'll need to enter the date that the EPA period concluded in the achievement date box.

This field will be used to record the end of the apprenticeship standard. This date concludes the End point assessment period that has taken place on or after 1 August 2019. Once this date is returned the Completion status and associated Outcome must be updated accordingly.

Martin West

The actual end date must be the date training ended and the Achievement date the date the EPA was completed (pass or fail).

Steveh

Basically, what happened was, they reused a field that used to be for Frameworks rather than making a new field, even though it was for something entirely different which has caused nothing but confusion for the past three years...

Matthew Rogers

We are also getting this error but this is the first time it's appeared after coding apprentices 2 & 8 whilst they wait for their result. We have learners on the ILR with this code and no errors. Is this a recent change or a known issue? 

Martin West

Should have been 1 and 8 until completion of EPA

Steveh

It's a recent change to this being an error in the ILR, but we should've been using 1&8 for two years, not quite sure why they've only just added the Rule Violation.

Charlotte Carlin

Hi all, we are having the same issue - however when we report these learners as 1 and 8 we are getting the below Rule Violation:

Outcome_09 - The completion status is not valid for this outcome

Is anyone else having the same issue/can suggest anything to help?

Thanks in advance

 

Livia Bushgjokaj

Exactly the same issue as Charlotte C , if I record 1 and 8  it errors . How do we resolve this so the payment is made ?

Steveh

You only put 1&8 on the Programme Aim (ZPROG001), not the component aims, which should be 2 and the appropriate outcome.

(also, only applies to Standards, not Frameworks)

Charlotte Carlin

Thanks Steveh :-)

Livia Bushgjokaj

Steveh now I have changed it as advised I'm getting another error R123= the learner is continuing or intending to continue , therefore do not return the Date applies to for the latest ACT record . But in The App starter info the field is empty , if that makes sense? Any ideas how to resolve this please?

 

Martin West

You would only get an R123 error if the ACT Date applies to is in the ILR.

Livia Bushgjokaj

Hi Martin,

I have 100% not applied the 'date applies to' in the ACT. 

I have checked through and I cannot see anywhere - where the applies to has been entered, so not sure why its throwing an error to us ?

Martin West

Its not listed as a known issue so I would check your ILR file to see if it contains the Date To.

Emma Ford

Hi all,

We too are getting the same error messages as above when we change the effected learners to codes 1 and 8 on the programme aim.  We also have the error message CompStatus_02 (the learning actual end date must not be returned for this completion status) even though this rule is not meant to apply to standards on funding model 36, programme type 25 (this is stated in the ILR validation rules).  Any advice from anybody would be very much appreciated.

Many thanks

Emma

Steveh

Hi Emma

Are you sure that's erroring on the Prog Aim and not the component? The exception on CompStatus_02 is:

(This rule is not triggered by apprenticeship standard programmes (LearningDelivery.AimType = 1 and LearningDelivery.FundModel = 36 and LearningDelivery.ProgType = 25)

So it's only the ZPROG that can be 1&8.

Livia Bushgjokaj

Hi Emma, I have been escalating with the agency as well as with our software provider, so hopefully will have an update soon . We have until COP on Friday to submit the learner's final data . 

Livia Bushgjokaj

Hi Steve, 

yes we are getting this on the ZPROG 

Steveh

(Annoyingly, I haven't got anyone in Gateway in my data at the moment to check, but it definitely shouldn't be doing this)

(Also, you've got until October to return the data, an error now wouldn't stop you getting paid next month once the error is cleared)

Livia Bushgjokaj

Emma, 

what software provider are you using to export your ILR? 

Emma Ford

Morning all,

We have also raised a query with the service desk with regards to the error messages we are getting...they haven't responded as yet but I'm hoping they get back to me at some point today.  The CompStatus_02 error is triggering on the programme aim not a component aim so not really sure what's going on at this point.  Our software provider is HT Projects Limited.

Emma

Martin West

This rule is not triggered by apprenticeship standard programmes (LearningDelivery.AimType = 1 and LearningDelivery.FundModel = 36 or 99 and LearningDelivery.ProgType = 25

It is not shown as a known issue and not having the same reported as an error.

HTH

Hollie Strong

I am also getting this error and it doesnt make sense.  The guidance states what we are doing is correct 

https://guidance.submit-learner-data.service.gov.uk/22-23/psm/article/recording-apprenticeship-outcomes-and-completion

When the training period for the apprenticeship standard is complete, but the end point assessment period is incomplete, the Outcome must be recorded as code 8 ‘Learning activities are complete but the outcome is not yet known’. Where the Outcome is recorded as code ‘8’, the learning actual end date must also recorded, as all learning activities have taken place.

 

(Edited)

Martin West

This goes on to say:

In order to be recorded as ‘Completed’ (Completion status code 2), both the training and end point assessment activities for the programme must be completed.

So, it would remain as 1 & 8 until the EPA has been completed.

HTH

Hollie Strong

Ive just seen that.  It must be a new ruling as this has never came up before :(

Steveh

Literally been there for two years, they've just never enforced it before.

Livia Bushgjokaj

Previously this would come up as a warning not an error. 

I have been told by our software provider, that the ESFA have re-inforced it , but the software developers have not upgraded to it as yet. 

Ask your software provider to apply a patch to your system and run a new script. I have generated a new ILR file and all errors have been resolved. 

Martin West

Most software suppliers would not have made that mistake.

Dan Hodgetts

Hi, just picking up on this thread, can someone confirm when the 20% completion payment is trigger for a Provider.  Would be it on the when "8" is added to the completion status or should the Provider wait until the EPA has been completed to claim the completion payment?

Martin West

When at gateway it is 1 and 8 but the completion payment is generated when the completion status is updated to 2 when the EPA has been completed.

HTH