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Created 17 March 2022 12:12
Please can someone advise on the following scenario. An apprentice is under a main provider but their apprenticeship is fully delivered via a subcontractor. The subcontractor is now on the RoATP. The main provider wants the subcontractor to transfer in to them the apprentice for the completion of their apprenticeship. This would mean no change for the apprentice or in effect the employer. My questions are :
* would the subcontractor (now on the RoATP ) have to get the employer on the DAS ?
* Is there a minimum duration that the apprentice would need to be doing the learning part with the subcontractor or is it okay for them to go straight to Gateway with the subcontractor?
* Is there any additional documentation required other then the Apprenticeship Agreement and the Commitment Statement?
MTIA of any advice and guidance
No one has replied to this post.
If you are the main provider the learner would be on your ILR at present, are you saying you havent declared the subcontractor but you want to now?
You want the learner transfetrd fully to the subcontractor? if so this will count the same as a withdrawal for stats purposes as we did this a while ago but for different reasons.
Declaring a subcontractor retrospectively is something that could get you in trouble in a audit as the subcontractor should be declared and on your paperwork from day 1.
17 March 2022 18:08 (Edited)
From the PSM
Transfers to a different provider on the same or a different apprenticeship
The original provider closes the ILR records for the apprentice and records any repayment of co-investment as applicable using PMR records.
The new provider will create new learning aims for the apprentice with new start dates and planned end dates as applicable. The new provider must record the new price for the programme using AFinType = TNP and AFinCode 1 and 2 as applicable, the Apprenticeship contract type FAM must also be recorded.
From the funding rules
Action to take where the employer selects a different main provider where the apprenticeship remains the same
P341 The employer and new main provider must:
P341.1 negotiate a new price, as set out in these funding rules. If funded by a transfer, both the sending and receiving employers will need to agree the new apprenticeship in the apprenticeship service; and
P341.2 update the apprenticeship service with the new price, new main provider and effective date.
P341.3 If funded via reserved funds you must contact the apprenticeship service support desk.
Effect on funding
Funding from an employer’s apprenticeship service account or government-employer co-investment to the first main provider stops. Payments due to the first main provider are reconciled. Funding from an employer’s apprenticeship service account or government co-investment for the second programme is made to the new main provider. The funding band cap and minimum duration will apply to the total cost across both main providers.
The co-investment rate for the apprenticeship will remain at the rate in force at the time it started.
The employer continues to receive additional payments. The original main provider retains any additional payments already made. Any remaining main provider additional payments not paid to the original main provider can be paid to the new main provider.
The number of days in learning with the first main provider are added to the days in learning with the new main provider to calculate when payments are due.
18 March 2022 07:49
I can only assume they're changing provider because they've realised they were breaking this rule.
P169 At the outset of each apprenticeship, a main provider and employer will agree a planfor its delivery. You must directly deliver some of the apprenticeship training and / oron-programme assessment associated with each employer’s apprenticeshipprogramme. By apprenticeship programme we mean all of the apprentices that youhave been contracted to deliver training to, on behalf of any one employer,irrespective of occupational area, standard or level. The volume of training and / oron programme assessment that you directly deliver for each employer must havesome substance and must not be a token amount to satisfy this rule. It must not belimited to a brief input at the start of each employer’s programme or involve deliveryto just a few of a large number of apprentices. It does not include simply deliveringEnglish or maths or aspects of the apprenticeship which all apprentices must have,such as safeguarding, British values or target setting.
The initial main provider would be in trouble if that was discovered, even if they have now transferred them elsewhere.
18 March 2022 10:25
Many thanks for the responses. Just to clarify that no rules have been broken and the sub-contracting arrangement has been declared at start.
Thanks Martin for helping us to clarify what is involved.
18 March 2022 12:18
I have a similar question regarding an apprentice moving from one main provider to another main provider.
Does anyone know what evidence needs to go with them - I would presume their portfolio of work and OJT log, but what about any of the learner evidence pack/enrolment paperwork or does that stay with the original provider?
Thank you in advance, Judy.
23 March 2022 11:09