Kelly Knights

OTJ examples

Edited

During a recent external funding audit the auditors scrutinised OTJ entries for apprentices. 

I've read through the funding rules and am clear what activities do and don't count as OTJ.

I'm looking for some advice on examples like these:

Client meeting which helped me to generate the skills and evidence linked to the KSB (Stakeholder Management)

or

Review with line manager where we developed a witness testimony used for professionalism unit as part of KSB

I dont have delivery experience and am struggling to see how the above clearly links to acceptable examples of OTJ. Could they class as mentoring for example?

Thank you

 

Replies

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Martin West

See the following document for examples:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/831591/OTJ_Guide_v3_-_12092019_Final.docx

Client meetings and reviews would generally not be included as OTJ training.

HTH

Paul Rogers

Hi,

 

I would add that more specifics are essential.  Putting more than KSB, and identifying the specific K1, S1 or B2 (for example) that it relates to, and how.  Its all about the narrative now, identify the what, the how, the learning that was gained as a result and how it fits with the KSBs.  Martins comment about the type of activity is good to note, but also something along the lines of:

Shadowed a client meeting to see how the skill of negotiating (S1) and persuasive skills (K2) are used in pratice.  During the session i was able to attempt this myself, and after feedback with my manager confirmed that I had understood and learnt the skills required to improve.  I will continue to read up on the theory to ensure I am fully competent.

Cross reference all the specific KSB.s that it covered, and emphasis what was learnt and retained.  ESFA will be looking - as they have stated many times - about the quantity and amount of detail, and Ofsted will review the quality and specifics.

Hope this is also useful.

Paul.

Lisa Roper

Paul Rogers am i right to assume that the requirement for specific detail and narrative that shows what has been learnt is a requirement and not just a good practice measure.  I am struggling to find the guidance evidence to back this up:

ESFA will be looking - as they have stated many times - about the quantity and amount of detail

 

ANy direction to where I can find this in writing would be super helpful please. 

Paul Rogers

I have not seen anything in writing, it is only where I have observed feedback from the auditors over the past few years.  Overseen what the main audit firms have reviewed as part of the controls audits and substantive audits of late.  

The document Martin shared is what we all have.  Others may have attended workshops from compliance experts.  Presently however nothing definitive has been released by the ESFA to confirm what is and what is not, other than the document above where you must ensure that (1) the off the job activity justifies learning took place and (2) that it related specifically to the KSB's of the apprenticeship they are doing.  

You need to ensure that the narrative is of a suitable depth to allow both an auditor of ESFA compliance AND an Inspector at Ofsted to walk away feeling assured that it is.   

Paul.

(Edited)

Lisa Roper

Thanks Paul response appreciated 

Ian Barrett

My view is that more specifics are not essential and there's nothing in the guidance to indicate this is needed.  We're in danger of adding bureaucracy here (and the guidance does refer to avoiding describing too much detail in case it becomes too bureaucratic) purely for the benefit of the auditors and at the expense of the learner experience.