Tracey Widdows

Updating EPA Price

Created

Hi

Is anyone else having trouble updating an EPA price when the learner has previously changed employer because you have to enter a new TNP3 and TNP4 which will either result in an overclaim and going over the funding band limit if you keep the total price the same and just change the date or a datalock error if you reduce the price to avoid the overclaim?

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Martin West

 

From the Technical guidance.

  1. If the apprentice changes employer, the provider and new employer should agree a price for the remaining training and assessment, we call this a ‘residual’ price. You should record this residual price in the ILR using the 'Apprenticeship Financial Record' entity in ILR returns. You record a residual training price as TNP 3 and a residual end point assessment price as TNP 4. These identify the price of the remaining training and/or assessment (including end-point assessment for apprenticeship standards) to be delivered following this change in circumstance to an ongoing programme. We will use this price information to calculate the earnings for the remainder of the programme and match to the new employer's account if they have one.
    1. In the example below, a training price (TNP1) of £3,500 and an end point assessment price (TNP2) of £500 is negotiated on 1 September 2018 at the start of an apprenticeship in the 2018 to 2019 ILR. On 23 November 2019 the employer changes, so a residual training price (TNP3) is negotiated at £2,000, and a residual end point assessment price (TNP4) is negotiated at £500.
  •  
  1. In your ILR for the original funding year, you would record your negotiated prices as follows:

AFinType

AFinCode

AFinDate

AFinAmount

TNP

1

01/09/2018

3500

TNP

2

01/09/2018

500

 

  1. In your ILR for the following funding year, when you have negotiated the residual price, you would record your negotiated prices as follows:

AFinType

AFinCode

AFinDate

AFinAmount

TNP

1

01/09/2018

3500

TNP

2

01/09/2018

500

TNP

3

23/11/2019

2000

TNP

4

23/11/2019

500

HTH

Tracey Widdows

Hi Martin

Thank you for your quick reply, that is correct and what we have been recording.  The problem happens when we then go into another contract year and the EPA price changes when the learner goes to sit their EPA.  Example below,

Same scenario as above the learner then sits EPA on the 23/11/20 and the EPA price has increased to £600.

TNP   3      23/11/20     1900

TNP   4      23/11/20      600

This will result in an overclaim and going over the funding band maximum

If we reduce the TNP3 and TNP4 to take into account the funding we have received from Nov 19 to Nov 20 and enter this new reduced negotiated price then this will result in a datalock error?

Steveh

You only use TNP3 and TNP4 when a learner changes employer, otherwise it's just new TNP 1 and 2.

Tracey Widdows

Hi Steve

You can't add a TNP1 and TNP2 after your have entered a TNP3 and TNP4 the system does not allow it, the ESFA have confirmed it is TNP3 and TNP4 to update the EPA price if the learner has previously changed employers but it results in a datalock or an overclaim.

Steveh

Oh I see, sorry, missed that the learner had changed employer.

If the EPA has gone up, then, yes, you will go over the top of the band, that's a feature, not a bug (a pretty rubbish feature, but that's how it's meant to work). You're meant to charge the employer the difference.

If it's gone down, then you need the employer to change the price to match on AS and then it won't datalock.

Tracey Widdows

But what if you have not charged the maximum price band to start with, you don't just go over the band it is then an overclaim as the system will automatically pay you up to the maximum band.  Also what employer is then going to pay the EPA price increase when you have already negotiated a price 3 years previous at the start of the apprenticeship.  Some of the employers are not paying anything if they are 16-18 SME and then we are supposed to turn around and say sorry you have to pay the EPA price increase because if you do not then we do not get paid the 20% achievement payment, what employer in their right mind would pay that?

If the employer changes the price then doesn't this change the price from the start of the record as the AS system does not allow you to add a second price and date for the same employer, so then it will still data lock as we can't change the price to match on our system from the original change date if we have gone into a different contract year?

Martin West

Your contract with the EPAO should indicate if it is a fixed price or subject to increase.

If the EPA costs are subject to change the employer should be advised of this and it should be included in your contract with the employer.

It can be an issue where you include the total price at the Cap at the start of the programme, but the funding rules includes the following:

P159 At least 6 months before the apprentice reaches the gateway the employer must have:

P159.1 selected an organisation from the Register of End-Point Assessment Organisations (RoEPAO) to deliver the end-point assessment,

P159.2 negotiated a price with the end-point assessment organisation. Only those organisations listed on the RoEPAO will be eligible to be funded.

P228.2 You must accurately reflect the negotiated prices for training and end-point assessment onto the ILR. Where you and the employer do not know the details of the end-point assessment organisation at the start of the apprenticeship, you must enter the price for end-point assessment once this has been confirmed. This field in the ILR must be left blank until the price of the end-point assessment has been confirmed to ensure accuracy.

You can revise the price at a later date, and this will be reflected in the AS but I expect some providers just take a hit on this where they have set the total cost at the CAP.